Sunday, 4 May 2014

Conversations With Leftists (8)






Stalinists & Trotskyists: What's the Difference?


I was at the march (and took the photos in this article), but I don't believe James was. I'm not a Stalinist. I'm a Trotskyist, and was in a tiny minority at the march.” - Jack Avatar


    Jack, you're a Trotskyist?

  • If Trotsky had gained as much power as Stalin, he would have become like Stalin. Had Stalin ended up like Trotskyist, he might have ended up like Trotsky.

  • The differences between Trotskyism and Stalinism only matter to Stalinists and Trotskyists. To everyone else, they are irrelevant and pedantic differences. Trotsky himself murder up to 100,000 anarchists and socialists (the wrong kind) - and that was within just a couple of years of the Bolshevik coup.

  • The SWP (Trotskyists) hate communists (the CPGB) and vice versa. Why? Because they are fighting over the same political bones. They are rival gangs. Hell, even Trotskyist groups save their deepest hate for rival Trotskyist groups. It's all about power.

  • Almost every week, the CPGB features a critical article about the SWP. It works the other way too; though the SWP tends not to mention names.

    Gary Hastings of EDL News: Commie or Trot? Who cares!


Part of the reason why it is so dominated by tankies is that the organising committee (who I believe are made up of CPGB-ML and TUC bureaucrats) insist on having it on the 1st of May no matter what weekday it falls on, which means it's usually a weekday when most workers can't make it. if it was held on the weekend you'd have a much more representative (and much bigger) march full of ordinary trade unionists.” - Jack


    You too appear to fusing what you call "workers" with the trade unionist elite and trade unionists generally. Perhaps you have a problem only with “TUC bureaucrats” because they are affiliated with the CPGB and other communists and not with, say, the SWP.
  • That's not a surprise: historically all Trotskyist middle-class "vanguards" (elites) always saw themselves as the working class (just as Hitler “embodied the German nation and race”).
  • That is, middle-class Trotskyist vanguards anointed themselves as “the consciousness of the working class". The workers, of course, had "false consciousness". Why? Because they weren't Trotskyists/Marxists.
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Was Stalin on Our Side During World War Two?


    "Churchill was on Stalin's side wasn't he? Did you notice we were allied with the Soviets during WW2? I think there's probably a history book about it somewhere. What's your point?" - PeteCW

    It's called realpolitik, Peter.

  • Stalin didn't fight for us in WW2, He didn't even fight "on our side". He fought to protect his own Communist Imperialist Empire and his own power - nothing more and nothing less. Hell, he even signed a non-aggression pact with Hitler which lasted until 1941.


  • Before that, communists in Germany and beyond believed in the "first black, then red" formula . (Communists also directly cooperated with Nazis in strikes and suchlike.) That is, communists believed that the Nazis must first gain power (in Germany) and make the situation so bad that the communists could then take over (to create a regime as bad as Hitler's). Stalin was largely responsible for that position; though Trotskyists and other Leftists accepted it too.

  • "Don't be fooled by the Socialist in National Socialist Party. After all, the word Party in National Socialist Party doesn't mean that they attacked Poland with balloons and streamers or murdered Jews with little sausages on sticks and Tesco lemonade."

  • What makes you believe that 'genuine' (non-Nazi) socialist/communist parties only "attacked" states, or institutions or groups, with "balloons and streamers"? Socialists and communists in the 20th century were as violent and oppressive as the Nazis. I think you are mistaking socialists/communists for pacifists or hippies. That's a very silly mistake.


Didn't they believe and say that communism and bolshevism were a Jewish plot to to take over the world? Now - did the Nazis admire or despise the Jews? Have a little think about it. (The answer might be on the internet somewhere if you're having trouble).” - Pete CW

    Pete, your logic is staggeringly poor. How does the fact that Hitler and the Nazis hated the Jews automatically stop them from being socialists?

  • Some of the best Jew-haters have been socialists and communists: from Marx himself all the way to Norman Finkelstein today.

  • Have you ever read Marx's own diatribes against the Jews? In fact he hated the Jews for some of the same reasosn that the Nazis - some 70 years later! - hated them: he fused capitalism and the Jews together in his mind. Contemporary Leftists still do that. That's why they focus obsessively on Israel - because it is a "capitalist democracy", not only because of the Palestinians etc.

  • Nazis and communists/socialists fuse on the Jews, as well as on their hatred of what they both sneeringly call "capitalist democracy". Both pretend that it's the capitalist part of the capitalist-democracy equation that they have a problem with; whereas in fact it is democracy in any form they despise? Why? Because any form of democracy simply cannot guarantee them what they want: the total (Leftist/Nazi) power to bring about total (Leftist/Nazi) change.





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